With a collaborative research platform, ATD Fourth World association, Conservatoire national des arts et métiers and Centre national de la recherche scientifique, in France, are developing knowledge on participatory research into poverty. Bruno Tardieu (right), a full-time volunteer at ATD Fourth World, is one of the moderators of the merging knowledge workshops Why is ATD Fourth World involved in collaborations with scientific researchers? Bruno Tardieu: ATD Fourth World was founded in 1957 by Joseph Wresinski, a catholic priest, in an emergency housing camp built by the public authorities following Abbé Pierre’s call in 1954. The camp had become a slum, inhabited by desperate families. Wresinski was there as chaplain. The first people in charge of ATD realized that reality was being denied: officially, there was no longer any misery in France, there were only social cases, people not suited to progress. To get this reality recognized, a sociologist, Jean Labbens, and a psychologist agreed to carry out in-depth studies in the camp. From the outset, they took seriously the participatory observation reports drawn up by the association’s “permanent volunteer” staff: as they still do today, they wrote down every evening that had happened during the day. They worked from these as well as with open interviews.  What happened next? B. T.: With the support of the French Commission for UNESCO, ATD Fourth World organized two symposia at UNESCO headquarters in Paris, in 1961 and 1964, on what were then known as “misfit families”. They helped to establish the notion of social exclusion, to contradict the notion that people were ill adapted to their situation: it was really that outsiders did not understand how they intelligently adapted to impossible situation. The association was also involved in work with historians, writing the family histories of very poor families over several generations, and in research into children’s language development. Researchers at the Columbia University School of Social Work in New York (USA) were soon intrigued by these methods, community organizing that included priority to the poorest and invited ATD to collaborate with them on community development programs in the USA. Let’s jump ahead in time: in 2023, ATD Fourth World France shared the Participatory Research Prize for the “Croiser les savoirs avec tou.te.s” (merging knowledge with all) project. What was this project? B. T.: It has to be seen in the context of what I have just explained. Many academics disputed the scientific nature of the work carried out with ATD in the 1960s and 1970s. In 1980, at a conference held at UNESCO, Wresinski countered this view by asserting that, as far as poverty was concerned, academic knowledge was not superior to the knowledge that people themselves had of their condition, or to the knowledge of action acquired by social workers and permanent volunteers. And that people living in poverty must be allowed to formulate their questions and work on them: they can be the driving force behind other forms of research. These ideas led to the development of the merging of knowledge method: we invited academics, people living in poverty and people in action to co-construct knowledge. The work we carried out in this way brought to light epistemological questions, which were formulated in 2015 during a seminar in collaboration with a laboratory at the Conservatoire national des arts et métiers (CNAM). This led in 2017 to the creation of the collaborative space “Croisement des savoirs avec toutes et tou.te.s”, through an agreement between CNAM, CNRS and ATD Fourth World, with the support of the Groupement d’intérêt scientifique “Démocratie et participation” (group of scientific interest “Democracy and participation”). It was the work of this collaborative space that was awarded the prize in 2023. What was at stake in this work? B. T.: In France, or in Europe, politicians were interested in the knowledge we were producing together with people living poverty who were themselves members of ATD, because they could see that they could use it practically. But before using it as a basis for policy, they would check with university experts in the field. And there, they didn’t hear the same point of view at all: our knowledge was dismissed as non scientific. This is what forced us to formalize the terms of an alliance. So, you wanted to forge an alliance with these experts to produce a common knowledge, rather than fight for legitimacy? B. T.: Yes. And what’s more, this cooperation produces a better quality of knowledge. Academics help us to understand our knowledge using concepts from other fields. For example, the notion of epistemic injustice, which was identified in feminist philosophy by Miranda Fricker, from New-York University, is relevant to poverty studies: what people say is interpreted by concepts that go against what they mean. That is what happened when the poor were called inadapted, and we changed that into socially excluded. Another more recent example, the notion of non-recourse: in France, 30% of those entitled to social benefits do not receive them, and this is called non-recourse (or non take up). But what very poor people who have thought about it say is that it is non-access, rather than non-recourse: in practice, it is very difficult for them to apply for these benefits. And non-recourse imply that people do not even ask for their rights. We need to deconstruct some notions produced by academics alone, who have been blinded by their environment. And it is also necessary to deconstruct notions created by an association like ours, and beliefs that circulate among very poor people. Doing so, we are building new knowledge and ways of thinking together: the various participants in the research realize that they can indeed work together, despite their social, economic or educational differences. What was the collaborative space’s work program? B. T.: We explored three issues. First, separation in peer groups: should the different categories of participants to the merging of knowledge always work together, or is it preferable to keep some separate meetings in peer groups as safe spaces? The collaborative

The launch of the Science Decade symbolically took place 2nd December 2024, at the Latin America and Caribbean Open Science Forum on San Andrés, Colombia UNESCO launched a new website dedicated to the International Decade of Sciences for Sustainable Development Lidia Brito, Deputy Director General of UNESCO, Natural Sciences sector, officially opened the International Decade of Sciences for Sustainable Development (2024-2033) during the Latin America and CaribbeanOpen Science Forum (CILAC) 2024, held on San Andrés, Colombia, 2 – 4 December 2024. After a 30 minutes keynote talk, she moderated a ministerial panel with: Yesenia Olaya, Minister, Ministerio Ciencia, Tecnología e Innovación, Colombia; Eduardo Ortega-Barría, National Secretary for Science and Technology, Panamá (SENACYT); Benjamin Barán, President Minister, National Council of Science and Technology, Mexico (CONACYT); Walter Sáenz Rojas, Subdirector General, Tecnológico Nacional INATEC, Nicaragua; Manuel Martin Catacora Villasante, Advisor to the Presidency of the National Council for Science, Technology and Technological Innovation (CONCYTEC), Peru; Andrea Brito Latgé, Vice Minister of Strategic Policies and Programs, Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation, Brazil; Violeta Vázquez Rojas, Undersecretary of Science and Humanities, Government of Mexico; Andrea Armas Rodríguez, Director General of Science, Technology and Innovation, Ministry of Science, Technology and Environment of the Republic of Cuba; Paula González Frías, Head of the Public Policy Division, Chilean Ministry of Science, Technology, Knowledge and Innovation New website The International Decade of Sciences for Sustainable Development now has also a companion website, with all relevant information about UNESCO action for this Decade. Luc Allemand SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER To stay up to date with our projects and the development of the EHC Read more articles

The representative of associations in the steering committee of the University of Montpellier’s science shop explain why it is important for associations to be part of such a body. And why it can be difficult too. Nicolas Saulnier is the director of the département de l’Hérault branch of the Ligue de Protection des Oiseaux Occitanie and a member of the steering committee of the Trait d’Union science shop in Montpellier Why are you a member of the Trait d’Union steering committee? Nicolas Saulnier: The activities of the Ligue de Protection des Oiseaux Occitanie (LPO, Birdlife France) are focused on two actions: the protection of nature and the mobilization of citizens. The latter serves the former: we carry out a variety of activities to mobilize citizens to help protect nature, and to participate in the collection of data on its health. We have developed databases and participatory science tools, sometimes in conjunction with the academic world. In 2017, when the University of Montpellier organized Assises Sciences-Sociétés (science society forum), they invited the headquarter, which asked me to represent LPO. The idea for the Trait d’Union science boutique was born at this meeting. Did you feel the need for it at the time? N. S.: It was a discovery: I was not familiar with this type of structure and approach. The conference, and the work that followed in prefiguring and co-constructing the science shop, made me realize that the natural sciences and life and earth sciences are not the only approach to optimizing biodiversity protection: the human sciences are just as important. They help structures with divergent or even conflicting interests to come together and work collectively. And today, we realize that the challenges of protecting biodiversity, and the environment, are mostly linked to human commitment, to the ability to make decisions, and to the ability to evaluate that commitment. Progressively, I became involved in this dynamic. Especially as there was a concrete aspect from the outset, with a call for projects, to which we submitted. What project did you propose? N. S.: We were then working on the impact of wind farms on biodiversity. We thought that some of the devices supposed to reduce bird and bat mortality were not as effective as their promoters claimed. To evaluate these devices, we proposed to launch a research project with the CNRS Centre d’Écologie Fonctionnelle et Évolutive in Montpellier: this took the form of the “Réduction de la Mortalité Aviaire dans les Parcs Éoliens en Exploitation” (MAPE) project, which was deployed over several time scales, with internships, doctorates and post-doctorates, and is still ongoing today. From the outset, Trait d’Union has been committed to sustainable development projects. I joined the steering committee with the aim of focusing on biodiversity. Who was in the steering committee? N. S.: Initially, it brought together academics, institutions and non-academics. I represented the college of non-academics. Over the past year, the steering committee has opened up to other associative structures, which has enabled us to consolidate the balance between academics and non-academics. Who are the other associations involved in Trait d’Union? N. S.: Environmental education and sustainable development associations, as well as circular, social and solidarity economy structures. There are also associations founded by scientists. Today, the aim is to bring these different players together. But it must be acknowledged that, for the associations, it can be difficult to participate, due to their precarious financial situation and to the time availability of their leaders and members, while academics can sometime value their participation in this type of body, as part of the research work. There is also a cultural difference: for researchers, such participation is more or less self-evident, which is not always the case for associations. Was it easy to convince LPO members and managers of the importance that you spend time on this project? N. S.: As it started on the request of LPO, there was already an indication of the value of taking part in this initiative. Also, in the Hérault département, we were used to working with researchers, particularly within the framework of the National Action Plans, run by the French government to implement European and international commitments to protect nature. The territorial council and the board of directors of the local LPO clearly understood that it was in our interest to forge links and work on these types of dynamics. The fact that we were involved in a project from the outset helped a great deal: an association like ours can’t just be a think tank, it has to take action too. However, I think this commitment is also due to personal affinities: if I were to withdraw tomorrow, I’m not sure there would be the same interest. Does your participation in the steering committee of Trait d’Union take place during your working time for the LPO? N. S.: Yes. I do not sit on Trait d’Union as an individual, but as a representative of an association. We have also managed to ensure that the associations taking part receive a small allowance, which is not nearly as much as we would need, but which however exists, even if it is recurrently being debated. Does this financial participation by Trait d’Union also extend to projects supported by the science shop? N. S.: No, it only concerns participation in the steering committee. Participation in research projects is financed from our own funds. Who participates in LPO research projects? N. S.: The LPO is a volunteer-based association, with salaried staff to back up the volunteers’ efforts. However, for research work, you need interest and skills: researchers from different academic bodies sometimes accompany us and facilitate interaction with the research community. In other places, LPO has a local scientific director or a local scientific committee. This is not yet the case in Hérault. What about your ordinary members? N. S.: Members join us because they feel concerned with the ecological reality of our environment. Some are already trained and competent naturalists who are already working on

Through its participatory research platform, the University of Rennes helps since 2022 to the development of research project co-constructed by academics, associations and decision makers Benoît Feildel is Senior Lecturer in Spatial Planning and Urban Development at the University of Rennes 2, and Vice-President in charge of Sciences and Society of this university In 2022, the University of Rennes was awarded the “Sciences with and for Society” label by the French Ministry of Higher Education and Research. For which project? Benoît Feildel: The TISSAGE project, whose acronym stands for “Triptyque Science Société pour AGir Ensemble” (Science Society Triptych for Acting Together). It has three main themes: “Meeting in training”, “Reinventing public debate” and “Co-constructing research”. I am in charge of the latter, which is developing a participatory research platform. What is the motivation behind this platform? B. F.: Today’s universities have become specialized and estranged from civil society. The choice of research topics is made either by the state, or by the academics themselves. We want to change that a bit. That is why all our actions in the TISSAGE project are based on the equally balanced triptych researcher-citizen-decision maker. Citizens are represented by organizations of the civil society: mainly associations, and small businesses. The decision makers are public decision makers, political and administrative leaders, as well as business leaders. In all three areas, we require all three types of stakeholders to be present. The aim of the participatory research platform is to implement this triptych in research projects. How does it work? B. F.: The participatory research platform is a seed fund and incubator. Each year, we launch a call for projects offering a grant of between €3,000 and €5,000. This sum is mainly intended to finance meetings where the three types of stakeholkders – researchers, citizens and decision-makers – get to know each other better, translate each other’s vocabulary, and start to build the research project. This stage is crucial, as we know of examples of “participatory research” in which academics are the prescribers of the research problem. And it is important to give economic recognition to the involvement of civil society: participating associations can be paid for this meeting time. In all, we have financed 32 projects over three years, out of the 35 proposals. Why is the success rate so high? B. F.: The selection committee, which is made up of the same triptych, does not judge scientific opportunity: it judges the desirability of a meeting. It tries to assess the willingness of the project’s co-initiators to really work together. Moreover, the applications did not exceed the total budget, which was around €50,000 per year. What types of projects were selected under this scheme? B. F.: To illustrate the diversity, in the last wave, decided in October 2024, there is a research project with the Rennes-based association Les Pétrolettes, which works on student prostitution, with academics from the École des Hautes Études en Santé Publique (Public Health Advanced Studies) and the metropolis of Rennes. There is a project to experiment with agroforestry as part of a social economy scheme. Another example: the reconstruction of a prehistoric pirogue in experimental archaeology, with locals in Vannes, in collaboration with an association working on urban policy. Or the mobilization of the associative sector in the neighborhood near Rennes 2 university to reflect on the issues of inequality and forms of discrimination, with sociologists, city policy players, the local community center and, of course, the public decision-makers behind these policies. How easy is it for citizens to get involved through associations? B. F.: Cécilia Querro, the platform’s coordinator, has worked hard to create links. She has used her knowledge of the associative world, and specific methodologies to enable the positions of the different players to be symmetrical, so that civil society, the associative sector, think that they are legitimate to put their questions to the university and to co-construct together. The call for projects is launched through higher education and research diffusion channels. C. Querro brings these opportunities to the attention of the associative sector, and accompanies the requests that come from there. Once projects have been selected, how do you support them? B. F.: During the incubation period, which lasts about a year, we offer three group meetings for the collectives behind the projects, so that they can share their experiences and help each other. There is also more individualized support, depending on the needs and requests of each collective. And, at the end of the year, we organize a symposium, with a reflective goal. In the first year, we focused on how researchers position themselves in participatory research, how it transforms their profession, but also their epistemology, their way of conceiving the construction of knowledge, and the legitimacy of different types of knowledge. In the second year, we worked on the notion of the citizen-researcher, by conducting a survey of “key witnesses”. Next year, we plan to turn our attention to decision makers. What’s more, as we come to the end of the three-year experiment, we hope to raise awareness of the need for further funding. Have you already evaluated the impact of this scheme? Some groups have held meetings, developed research projects, and applied for, and even obtained, funding from other sources. For example, since 2019, the Brittany Region has had a call for Research and Society projects, for maximum funding of €80,000. Other projects have obtained funding from the National Research Agency, 1% of whose budget is dedicated to science with and for society, and which launches dedicated calls for projects. Other groups have failed to meet. On a more general level, many of the associations that come to us say that participatory research gives them a form of legitimacy to make themselves known and to seek subsidies from public players. It’s a form of instrumentalization, but we accept it, as long as the work carried out is of a scientific nature. If this in-depth work reveals that associative action has a strong social utility and that

EHC members will gather on 13th december to discuss ongoing projects and make decisions for the year to come. The Earth-Humanity Coalition General Assembly will gather representatives of the 50 member organizations On 13th December 2024, the 50 organization that are today members of The Earth-Humanity Coalition will be invited to meet online for the third time this year.They will discuss the work presented by the three working group that have been working since the last general assembly, and make decisions for the future. Three working groups During the general assembly held 10th September 2024, the members of EHC decided the creation of three working groups: General strategy and revision of the charter; Content programming; Operational plan. The reports by these groups will be at the core of the next general assembly. The “General Strategy” group will present a revised version of the charter. The ambitions and goals do not change, but clarifications have been made. Projects are already ongoing The “Content Programming” group will present the projects that are already ongoing, in different stage of advancement. For instance, the virtual worldwide repository of articles and all information related to transdisciplinarity for sustainable development is already under development, in collaboration with the Belmont Forum. Also, webinars projects are under way. This group also prepared a survey about the activities that members (and other organizations) are already running to develop transdisciplinarity for sustainable development. Working groups members had the opportunity to fill this survey, a revised version of which will be proposed to all members. Organization for the future The “Operation plan” working group will present its proposals for the organization of EHC and for the funding of its activities in 2025. This is only the beginning of the road for The Earth-Humanity Coalition! Luc Allemand SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER To stay up to date with our projects and the development of the EHC Read more articles

A network of open laboratories works with local authorities, managers, professionals, associations, and populations to restore the habitability of territories. Olivier Ragueneau is research director in the French national research center (CNRS) in Brest, and coordinator of the Zones Ateliers network. You are the scientific delegate for the Zones Ateliers (workshop zones) network. What is a Zone Atelier? Olivier Ragueneau: It is an open structure organized on a well-defined territory: a river, a mountain range, a city. Researchers from different fields work on issues linked to sustainability, or the Earth’s habitability, together with local stakeholders. We aim to reconnect human beings and their environment, which scientific studies have separated for at least two centuries, by tackling the complexity of socio-ecosystems, in order to reposition human activities within the environment and the great planetary cycles, taking limits into account. For example, in Brittany, the “Zone Atelier Brest Iroise”, of which I am a member, studies the land-sea continuum, while the “Zone Atelier environnementale rurale Argonne” focuses on hyper-rurality, in the North-East of France. They have a variety of issues, but within each of them, we are developing similar approaches: interdisciplinary, with natural sciences, human and social sciences, and engineering sciences; and transdisciplinary, with local stakeholders involved in joint research. What does this network do? O. R.: The Zones Ateliers network is a CNRS Ecology and Environment initiative. There are 16 Zones Ateliers, with two more under construction in overseas France. The existence of a network enables us to link up the experiments and approaches developed in each of the Zones Ateliers, for comparative purposes. We stimulate projects in which we can test hypotheses along gradients, whether climatic, of human impact, and so on. For example, on the question of the history of relations between researchers and stakeholders, and their impact on the transformation of public policies: is the same thing happening in a recent Zone Atelier where researchers are starting to work with stakeholders, and in Zones Ateliers that have been developing links with non-scientific stakeholders and policy-makers for 20 or 30 years? The environmental and political context of agro-ecological transition differs greatly from one Zone Atelier to another, and it is interesting to draw comparisons. For example, in Brittany, with green algae and intensive agriculture, we are in a territory that is extremely blocked from a political and economic point of view, with the whole agro-industrial system. It is less conflictual elsewhere. The adaptation of flora and fauna to climate change is different in alpine pastures, in cities and by the sea, where there are risks of erosion and submersion in coastal areas due to the frequency of storms. Why is it important to take this diversity into account? O.R.: The collapse of biodiversity and climate change are creating a situation where transformative action is becoming increasingly urgent. But this cannot be decided in a top-down, uniform and prescriptive way: if we try to apply homogeneous indicators or criteria in different contexts, it will not work. And populations generally rebel against this. We have seen this in Brittany with water quality indicators: those established at national or European level do not work and cause a whole host of problems. It is essential to take into account the diversity of our socio-ecosystems. This will be at the heart of the Transform Priority Program and Equipment (PEPR Transform) currently being contracted by the French national research agency (ANR). In September 2024, the Zones Ateliers network organized a symposium entitled “Co-constructing research on socio-ecosystems”. What does this mean in concrete terms? O.R.: For us, the term “co-construction” covers the entire research process, starting with the emergence of research questions. For example, we were approached by fishermen who could no longer fish for scallops in the bay of Brest, because there were toxic phytoplankton, and fishing was banned. Together, we have discussed their problems, we have confronted this with the expertise we have, and the knowledge we lack. If we assess that we can set up a research project together, then we transform a public problem into a research question, and we can engage in co-research with different stakeholders, who will carry out experiments, for example. This can include participatory science, because as the project progresses, we will need to collect data, with the help of citizens and professionals. And then, in the analysis and restitution, we may also want to involve different stakeholders. Why is this co-construction important? O. R.: The main interest is to bring politics back to the territories, in the sense of citizen participation in the life of the city: it is more efficient to involve people than just explain things with a conference. Being involved in research, non-scientific stakeholders, participate to the production of knowledge. What is more, as today science is criticized, and fake news are everywhere, this approach enables us to disseminate the scientific methods, and not just the results of research. For example, in Brittany, on the issue of “green tides”, we are running participatory science projects with agricultural high schools: working with young people who are future farmers could help to break the conflict between scientists and farmers, who question the data. Involving students in sampling, measuring nitrates, explaining long-term trends and discussing with them goes far beyond raising awareness. They take ownership of the scientific approach, which gives them empowerment back. This is in line with the theory of inquiry, developed by the American philosopher John Dewey in the early 20th century, and taken up again in recent decades by the French philosopher Bruno Latour. What is more, we are doing this with people who often do not think they have the capacity to do so: it is rewarding for them. The assumption we make in the Zones Ateliers network is that the co-construction of knowledge has a performance-enhancing effect, and leads to greater transformations in public policy than if we only transmit scientific data to decision-makers, with the hope that they will make the right decisions for sustainability and socio eco-systems good

With the association Sciences Citoyennes and the Mouvement pour des Savoirs Engagés et Reliés, physicist Pablo Jensen is working for greater citizen participation in decisions concerning scientific research Pablo Jensen is director of research at the CNRS, member of the physics laboratory at the École Normale Supérieure de Lyon, member of the board of directors of the association Sciences Citoyennes and organizer of the Journées des Savoirs Engagés et Reliés (JESER) Why are you a member of the board of the Sciences Citoyennes association?  Pablo Jensen: The scientific activity is too important to be left in the hands of scientists alone. That is what Sciences Citoyennes is all about: opening up science and working with citizens. In France, it is, to my knowledge, the only long-term association in this field: it has been created in 2002. At the end of the 1990s, I launched Cafés des Sciences in Lyon, as did many others elsewhere, but this type of initiative, driven by one or two individuals, dies out when these individuals want to move on to something else. It is really important that, at least at the national level in France, there is a structure that embodies this desire to open up the academy to society, without being subservient to the academy or the institutions. What is the underlying motivation? P. J.: Let’s take the example of GMOs. A technique that was of interest to biologists, for exploring living organisms and fundamental sciences in the laboratory, has been appropriated by industrialists for applications on millions of hectares. The first thought that come to scientists is: “It is good that something we found in the laboratory can be applied.” And they are often blind to the fact that what is done outside the laboratory is very different from what is done in the laboratory: GMOs in the field raise many new questions, as have shown activists, allied with professional researchers, in this case ecologists. Generally speaking, the social consequences of all scientific work concern many citizens, and this is set to increase with the ecological crisis. So, a social control on science is important, in a democratic way. Do you feel that science is not enough controlled by society? P. J.: Today, the sciences are obviously in society, because they depend on public budgets and have public consequences, but this is done in ways that are not very democratic. For example, it is hard to know who really decides where public funding goes. Historically, with modern science came the ideas of research autonomy and laboratory confinement. This has produced sciences which are not intrinsically bad, but which are intrinsically dangerous: the kind of knowledge they produce lends itself very well to technological acceleration because it is so entangled with technology. As soon as you create knowledge that is totally dependent on technology, especially because of the laboratory equipment you use, it is very natural to contribute, thanks to this knowledge, to the technology and acceleration that endangers the habitability of the planet. Everything should not be put on the same level, but there is a strong trend that needs to be noted, and which the scientific community needs to reflect on. What are the actions of Sciences Citoyennes? P. J.: There are three main areas: the democratization of science, research ethics and the scientific third sector. I am directly involved in the first only. We are working with MPs and senators, who are promoting a law to have 10% of the public research budget decided by a citizens’ convention. And Sciences Citoyennes is also making a major contribution to support the Mouvement pour des Savoirs Engagés et Reliés (MSER). What is it all about? P. J.: It is an informal group of organizations, born of the desire to open up science and enable exchanges with civil society. That is what the citizen science cafés were already doing to some extent. But today, we are focusing on the ecological question, for which openness is crucial: the consequences will affect everyone, and it is crucial to co-construct solutions. Our main idea is that all knowledge is engaged and connected, because all knowledge is situated in a world that has helped to produce it and makes it relevant. We would like everyone to be convinced of this, the academic world, to begin with. What do you mean? P. J.: Many researchers, especially in the “hard” sciences, believe that they are working to create neutral, objective knowledge, which society can then use for its own needs. It’s not up to us to say what should become of particle physics, biology or chemistry, but we would like these researchers to reflect on the world they are building with the knowledge they are developing. But some of them are already doing so? P. J.: Yes. I am thinking, for example, of a fellow astrophysicist who was dissatisfied with the impact of his work, and who used his simulation tools to work with ecologists who monitor and model the movements of animal populations. However, if the researcher had not first developed and mastered tools in astrophysics, he would have been less useful in ecology: doesn’t fundamental, abstract science create tools for other fields? P. J.: This is a classic argument, but it seems to me to be an a posteriori justification for work that appeals to very fundamental physicists. It is paradoxical to say: “Let’s do a bit of research anywhere, and then be useful in areas where there are pressing questions”. We might as well work directly in these important areas. In fact, there are just as many fundamental questions to be resolved before we get to applications. Of course, in science, there are always crossovers and unexpected discoveries, but that’s not the right way to build a science policy. But what becomes then of academic freedom? P. J.: Of course, academic freedom must be supported. But, first, it cannot be used as a pretext for researchers to say: “Give us funding, and let us do what

Since 2023, the University of Toulouse has been implementing the Toulouse Initiative for Research’s Impact on Society, with 4% of its budget directly dedicated to the development of interactions between all sciences and society. Bertrand Jouve is Research Director at CNRS and scientific coordinator of the TIRIS project at the University of Toulouse You coordinate the Toulouse Initiative for Research’s Impact on Society (TIRIS) project. Why does it include a program explicitly devoted to co-constructed research? Bertrand Jouve: TIRIS is one of the 46 projects of excellence in the Investissements d’Avenir program steered by the French Ministry of Higher Education and Research, which started on January 1ᵉʳ 2023, for ten years. Our motto is “Science in and for Society”. Therefore, it makes sense to have a program explicitly dedicated to the interfaces between science and society. The TIRIS project has been built around four programs: research, training, science and society, and innovation. And these programs are developed on three pillars linked to global challenges: health and well-being, global change, and sustainable transitions (energy, mobility, industry, etc.). The science and society program includes a call for co-constructed research projects, as well as a “Science Shop” and an Observatory. Why are there different programs for science and society and innovation? B. J.: In TIRIS, and more generally, science and society interaction, where we build with civil society, is separated from innovation, where we build with experts, from the economic and social sectors, local authorities, etc. However, the boundaries are blurred, and we’re working on the links between both. What actions have you already launched within this science and society program? B. J.: We have three initiatives. Two are in progress and one is already launched. The latter is a call for transdisciplinary projects, bringing together experts from civil society, extra-academics and academics. There is an “incubator” component: for the first year, 21 projects were submitted, and after selection, we are supporting 8 of them with a maximum of €10,000. These include, for example, a project to improve the reception and linguistic follow-up of migrant teenagers in Toulouse, a program on the transmission and production of knowledge in agroecology, and a project on citizen initiatives in epidemiology. There is also a “consolidation” component: we are supporting 5 of the 14 projects submitted, for a maximum of €40,000 each. These include, for example, a project on the habitability of a territory, bringing together the environmental sciences and the human and social sciences on the issue of pollution; a project on migration, with the Toutes Ensemble! association and the Empalot district social center; a project on youth mobility in ultra-rural territories, shared governance and territorial resilience, with the Observatoire Territorial des Jeunesses et des Politiques Jeunesses of the Lot département. Will this call for projects be renewed every year? B. J.: Yes, the next one will be launched mid-December 2024 or early January 2025. Over time, we’ll see if we need to adapt it to changes in the context. What is the share of this co-research call in the budget of TIRIS? B. J.: TIRIS is funded with €95 million over 10 years. The co-research program will spend €4 millions over 10 years, including 1,3 million from the Occitanie Region. So the Occitanie Regional Council considers that co-constructed research is important? B. J.: Sure. The Occitanie Region also funds the Laboratoire des Transitions, an experimental approach to consultation and intermediation between regional public policy players and researchers in the human and social sciences, for co-constructing public policies around major societal issues. It is run by the Maisons des Sciences de l’Homme in Toulouse and Montpellier. What are the other initiatives of the TIRIS Science & Society program? B. J.: We are setting up the Observatoire des Interactions Recherche-Société (Observatory of Research-Society Interactions): we list science and society initiatives, identifying the diversity of interactions, characterizing them, pinpointing the obstacles or levers, etc. The aim is to create links, pool resources and train stakeholders to facilitate the development of these interactions. All kinds of interactions between research and society, not just co-constructed research, are concerned? B. J.: Yes, we have carried out a survey using a questionnaire, which is currently being analyzed. There is also a “Science Shop” project: what is it about? B. J.: The goal is to connect the academic world with citizen projects. We need to find ways of generating demand from non-academic stakeholders, and then assess the potential for development, in order to put them in touch with researchers who can help develop the idea. Non-academics are often unfamiliar with the academic world, and unable to identify the right partners. The specifications have been drawn up, and the web portal is under development. What is the budget for this Science Shop? B. J.: €1.7 million over 10 years. These are operating costs. Projects can then apply for funding under the co-research scheme or seek funding from other sources. It also works the other way round. Six projects that applied to the “incubator” co-research call got a good evaluation, but the link between extra-academic partners and academic partners was too weak: we offered them support via the Science Shop, so that they could eventually apply again, to the “consolidation” section. What are the needs today to further develop co-constructed research? B.J.: We’ll have to take care to ensure that the budget keeps pace with the inevitable growth in demand. To get the science and society program off the ground, €4 million over 10 years is enough. But if we are successful and the projects become more ambitious, I am afraid we will be limited in our ability to respond afterwards. The best thing would be to develop sponsorship. Another important issue for us will be to work on coordinating our Science & Society program with our Innovation program, with a particular focus on social innovation. Interview by Luc Allemand Innovation must be both technological and social “As far as innovation is concerned, we want it to be not only technological, but also social.

The director of an association providing social support and advice to people in need tells why they engaged in a research project about social workers practices, and why she wants to pursue this kind of actions Pascale Mallet is the Director of ADAC (Accompagner, Dynamiser, Agir, Créer le social autrement) in Saint-Étienne, France What is your professional activity? Pascale Mallet: I am the director and founder of ADAC (Accompagner, Dynamiser, Agir, Créer le social autrement), an association created in 1985, which provides support services for people facing social difficulty in France. We mainly employ family economic advisors (Conseillers en Économie Sociale Familiale). Our clients are diverse: public institutions, social housing services, local authorities, associations, private companies, pension funds and social security bodies. For each service, we develop an adapted methodology, with the common goal of making the person in difficulty an active participant. We have been innovating ever since the association was founded. This has led us to develop professional training to our methodology for social workers. Who are the people in difficulty that you support? P. M.: It depends on the client: people with inadequate housing; pensioners on modest incomes; students; people on integration schemes; employees with budgetary problems; etc. Often, their difficulties are linked to their family’s financial situation. And they are linked to complex situations: illness, separation, unemployment of the person or their partner, poor control of budgetary expenses. There are also a growing number of people suffering from professional burnouts, who are losing confidence in themselves in all areas of their lives. We are also subsidized by the French government to welcome the public unconditionally as part of the “Point Conseil Budget” program. One of your employees recently got a PhD with academic work she developed within the activities of the association. Why did ADAC become involved in such a project? P. M.: Ever since ADAC was founded, we have been thinking about how to improve our practices. And for a little over ten years now, we have been carrying out action research, based on issues identified by colleagues in the field. For example, what is the impact of digital technology on social practices? How to deal with interculturality in social practices? Is social support a support to change? Within this framework, we draw on relevant scientific articles, and feedback from field practices, to define benchmarks for our work, an ethical stance, or even new actions. In 2018, we were fortunate to recruit Claire Jondeau, a social and family economics advisor, who was planning to prepare a thesis on professional practices in social action. Through a variety of circumstances, the association’s management suggested that her research field should be the structure itself. This was of interest to us, as her approach involved as co-researchers social workers and supported people. Why hadn’t you undertaken any research projects before? P. M.: I knew colleagues in another geographical area who had an agreement with a university. But for us field social workers, it is difficult to get in touch with academic researchers: we did not know how to go about it. Hiring this colleague, who had dual status, was an opportunity. What kind of questions did you try to answer with this work? P. M.: We wanted to decode what happens between a person in need and a social worker during an individual support interview, by analyzing significant sequences of the interview: the opening of the interview, the announcement of “what is left to live on”, the end of the support. It is a study of the micro-knowledge developed during the exchange, often unconsciously, by habit over the years. For example, each colleague has a particular way of introducing interviews: we decode these acts with a scientific approach, to see what this way of doing produces. During co-analysis sessions, we listen to recorded interview sequences and decode them using a combination of two methods: conversational analysis and explicitation, which puts people in the position of evoking what happened to them during the interview. A co-analysis session is therefore made up of four people: a researcher specializing in conversational analysis, a fellow researcher specializing in explicitation, a social worker and the person being supported, both of whom become co-researchers on the principle that “it is the person who does who knows”. What does this method produces? P.M.: When we presented this approach at the University of Saint-Étienne, a sociologist remarked that by “merely” sending out questionnaires or recording people, he had not had access to what people were thinking during the execution of the action, what they had said or done. On the other hand, social workers are accustomed to a kind of reflexive approach: the analysis of professional practice. But this “re-listening to the action in the process of-doing” allows us to revisit seemingly innocuous actions or phrases from the interview. For example, in one interview, a social worker had remained silent because she no longer knew what to propose to the person she was accompanying. The co-analysis revealed that the latter had taken advantage of this silence to reflect on her own possible solutions. The social worker’s feeling of powerlessness had in fact empowered the person she was supporting, so that she could be in charge! Has this work already transformed the way you work? P. M.: The colleagues involved in this project have become aware of small, systematic or unconscious gestures, actions, words or positioning, and this has enabled them to develop strategies for conducting interviews. Their self-confidence increased, they doubt less about their practice, and they dare to try out new postures and new subjects. We have also conducted shared co-analysis sessions with colleagues who have not taken part in recordings: this enables others to modify their practices, or at least to be differently aware of them, thus making a contribution to the corporate culture. Are the results obtained transferable beyond ADAC? P. M.: Transferability is a tricky concept. Each person and each situation are unique, and there would be little point in identifying a

Starting with his own work in conservation biology, Romain Julliard built an expertise on data collection by citizens, that he help today others to implement You are a specialist in conservation biology. Why did you become interested in citizen science? Romain Julliard: For practical reasons, first. The study of changes in biodiversity as we face global changes needs to be carried out on huge time and space scales, for which we lack professional or technical observation facilities: experimental stations, or field observations that we could carry out with students, are not fit. Only networks of human volunteers can be deployed and maintained on these scales. They enable us to collect very rich data, as long as they are structured, planned and standardized. What’s more, these observers easily provide important information about their environment, their practices and their local knowledge. Starting in 2006, “Opération Papillons” (Operation Butterfly) was your first citizen science initiative for unskilled volunteers. What scientific questions did you want to answer? R. J.: The aim was to study how this group of pollinating insects cope with urbanization: which species are able to strive into the city? Why? Where? What are the characteristics of the city that make it possible or impossible for them to enter? Butterflies are representative of flying insects, and easy enough for non-specialists to identify. The network, which extends to several thousand gardens across France, in a wide variety of areas, in the city, in the suburbs and out-of-town, provides information on the organization of biodiversity at these scales, and also links observations to other information such as the landscape, the size and composition of the garden, and the practices of gardeners. Without those participants, it would be almost impossible to obtain this information. You began this type of work in the 2000s: was it innovative? R. J.: In the past, there were surveys by expert naturalists, communities and learned societies. For example, there was a long-standing tradition of collaboration between ornithologists’ associations and the Muséum National d’Histoire Naturelle (MNHN), which initially focused on mapping and species description: what is the distribution of species ecology independently of human? Gradually, we shifted our paradigm to monitoring, focusing on dynamics and human-induced changes. We have therefore also changed our methods. The completeness associated with mapping is very different in terms of statistics, from standardization and reproducibility of measurements, which are important for monitoring. To monitor biodiversity, scientists have changed both discipline and method. Then, in the mid-2000s, we introduced “general public” monitoring, which did not rely on the participants’ prior skills. Participants acquire new skills as they take part in the research, both in terms of butterfly identification and ecology: butterflies are caterpillars, there are migratory butterflies, seasonal butterflies, and so on. And these skills have consequences for species conservation, by transforming the way they keep their gardens. Have you studied this aspect? R. J.: One of the promises of participatory science is the transformative power it can have on individuals, and even on the collective of individuals who take part in research. A colleague carried out a survey of the members of our partners in biodiversity monitoring, large associations. Among the respondents, half were not involved in monitoring. He showed that these had a slightly higher average level of education than the one who were participating. On the other hand, among the latter, the average level of confidence in science was higher. But we don’t know whether the higher level of confidence was due to participation in the project or whether it was the cause. Can participatory science have a wider impact? R. J.: There is a social legitimacy effect for scientific results produced in this way. If we announce: “there has been a 30% decline in common bird populations, a network of thousands of observers working with the Museum has produced this data”, social acceptability is greater than if the result were obtained from the observations of a few research stations. Even if, scientifically, both results are equally valid. Did your scientific colleagues take this participatory approach for granted? R. J.: There was a lot of resistance. This type of research changes the position of power in relation to the objects studied: scientists are no longer the exclusive masters of research. There is a sharing of responsibility and power, as well as a dependence, between the network of data producers and the researchers. And there’s also a constraint, linked to the commitment the scientists make to the network members to valorize these data. There was considerable reluctance from some researchers who were not involved in participatory science, who saw it as a threat to their profession. Today, few researchers express this reluctance. However, we still meet strong opposition in the technical professions. For example, I am having trouble convincing members of agricultural technical institutes to carry out participatory research projects with large network of farmers to study the transitions underway. Many of those who work there prefer to keep a dominant position vis-à-vis those they advise. Yet it seems fairly obvious that, by conducting participatory research involving farmers, foresters, planners or architects, the knowledge produced will be shared directly with those most likely to apply it. So, the impact is greater? Especially in terms of speed of transmission. In the current model, scientists carry out research, they produce knowledge that will enlighten society, which is then responsible for using it to develop policies and so on. It’s a slow process, compared to the transition and transformation challenges we face today. This is one of the reasons why so much attention is being paid to citizen and participatory science. We think that this approach is well-suited to the challenge of rapidly finding solutions to these changes. What is behind the current slow pace? R. J.: There is a time lag: the problems we study in research are already out of date by the time they reach the stage of possible implementation. And there is a problem of relevance: researchers tend to study what interests them,